China
The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
"In 4 years time America will be over" says Waling who runs the Boers-Li art gallery in Beijing.
"It is not so much the East copying the West, but the West copying the East nowadays".
42 comments
Re: Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
youtube comments, 30 Dec 08, 14:13
I wholeheartedly agree with every word of the man in orange! Comparing religion with astronomy showing the same narrow-minded and aggressive behavior towards others is very effective. I like the water-of-life metaphor also, although the way it is elaborated leaves out the obvious mixture of different fluids which, combined, are spontaneously inflammable if not downright explosive. Indeed the counter-argument to such obviously sensible criticism of religion is usually that one does not leave people the freedom and room to experience their cherished faith, while I too do not object to that at all (it’s silly, but so are many other human activities) but do when it limits or even tries to destroy the room and freedom of my experiences. And that alas is too often the case, to which tolerant religious people rarely object. Where are the religiuously tolerant who do?
I am curious to know more about the drug binge, although that’s a different subject altogether, which the fervent however won’t leave unused to demonstrate the moral abyss in which the non-believer is believed to reside.
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
xamg27
Aww you're lucky, I'm 1/4 English, 1/4 German and 1/2 Taiwanese, and they speak Mandarin in Taipei but I can't understand a lot of it :(! I can't understand much Hokkien (Taiwanese native tongue) either!
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
queenshussars
wow english, german and taiwanese, which do you call yourself?
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
xamg27
I normally just call myself Eurasian or mixed race - I think it would be weird to call myself one nationality/race or the other!
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
xamg27
Agree. In fact I think it's rather ignorant and rude.
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
smudge6699
Great video, superb analysis of East verses West sociology and philosophy, but then the commentator is Dutch and they are a very liberal society.
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
smudge6699
I've trained in China, Beijing has many beautiful parks.
China itself is a place of extremes though,
either very beautiful or bleak and grey like Dickensian Britain.
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
vincesmithuk
"Freedom of Speech" Do we really have that Freedom in either the UK or USA?
America was finished the day it elected Bush, or should I say, they day Bishs tiole the election.
I have been going to China for 5 years every month, and it never ceases to amaze me,the People, The Culture in fact all.
China has a History of over 5,000 years The USA a measley 250. Of course the USA can learn from China and many other Asian countries. Respect for Others, Politeness and a willingness to learn.
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
xamg27
You sound like an Asiaphile. Congratulations.
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
bokualec
Wow, beautiful generalisations going on here. With regards to freedom of speech; for a start, you and I have unlimited access to YouTube whilst those in China do not.
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
vincesmithuk
Strange, neither I nor anyone I know has ever had any issues access YouTube while in China and I spend 6 months each year there.
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
bokualec
I don't think I can really take anyone seriously who says "the East" as though China and Japan similar in any way. China and Japan are more culturally dissimilar than China and any European country.
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
queenshussars
i think your wrong. i know, my father said america was over 10 years ago, and he was right.
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
queenshussars
shes counting and telling her fans to watch at the start, i can speak manderin. half english half chinese.
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
pixonu
I wish I could understand what he was saying. half of it was pretty hard to decipher.
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
mICKx134
a very interesting insight . .
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
thelegand1
wow Beijing looks really nice, a lot better than what i imagined 5/5
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
flip, the US is a republic and not a democracy. We do not have "one person one vote" here. The Bush-Gore election was decided by the rules and laws in place, although it's a popular myth to believe the election was some how stolen. It's also not the first election where the popular vote winner did not win the presidency .
The rest of your post was very thoughtful and interesting.
Re: Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
Vincent, 3 Oct 08, 15:27
To Flip:
Obviously you had some points in the definition of the so-called "West".
However, the problem is I can't see any direct relation between "the
complete disappearance of democracy" and the end of West superiority. What
did you imply?
Hi Vincent,
You are right of course: I didn't explain at all what I meant. Let me just say: democracy is already very imperfect even in the so called most democratic countries (Bush-Gore, Berlusconi). What worries me more are the effects of globalization. Democracy works best - maybe only - in limited geographical areas. Because of globalization and the ever growing interconnectedness of all and everything, individual countries matter less and less. We, here in Europe, cannot vote to preserve the rain forest in Latin America while it is vital for every one’s survival. Neither can we vote to protect the great apes in Africa who are threatened with extinction, along with thousands of other species worldwide. Climate change and overpopulation: same thing. Individual countries are powerless, so my vote in electing my government is useless for these things. So: the scale of the problems which have to be solved in order for us (and our children) to survive are beyond democracy. One: because of the scale. Two because many essential decisions are not made by governments but by - say - ‘the business world’, which is far from democratic.
My conclusion: in as far as democracy works at all, it won’t work for the most pressing problems. Either these problems aren’t solved at all, or they are solved by powerful elites.
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
I think that by giving to much attention to this abject people make it bigger than it is..
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
Europe and America is the West and all the ideas that formed them....
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
A lot of people are speaking about "The West"...but ...CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHAT "THE WEST" IS?????
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
To Flip:
Obviously you had some points in the definition of the so-called"West". However, the problem is I can't see any direct relation between "the complete disappearance of democracy" and the end of West superiority. What did you imply?
Re: Forum
I would have to disagree with you on that. Asia's prosperity is so much dependent on that of 'the West', of us and the US creating our demand, that I don't think there will be a shift at all. I think there will just be a new sense of realism growing worldwide, of how to best distribute wealth, food, fuel, energy, water, you name it. What the world requires is solidarity and equal rights (and I mean equal rights to the tremendous wealth this planet offers). For that to work I think information and knowledge is crucial, people in the know make fewer mistakes, do not allow being suppressed, abandon religion etc.
Re: Forum
Motion of the day (9/30):
Yes definitely a power shift towards Asia.
During this century we'll see a away from the US and Europe. Power centers have had life-cycles of less than that for the past few centuries. Since such developments gain speed this will even happen faster than most people would predict. 20 years, 30 years tops, I would guess.
‘The West’ can see nor act.
Does the West see this coming? Yes, this idea is all over the place.
Does the West realize what the implications are? No, who does?
Should the West adapt?
‘The West’ is not a person, but a global and interdependent web of corporations, governments and a variety of groups: religiously based, politically and environmentally oriented. Geographic location will matter less and less. The response will be the outcome of all of these, often contradictory influences. Hence: totally unpredictable.
The future is more unpredictable than ever, but one can guess
I believe there are two main mechanisms or forces: ‘the markets’, i.e. global capitalism and efforts to save the planet. Three possibilities:
- global capitalism wins and we’re doomed
- efforts to save the planet win and we’re saved
- somehow global capitalism and preservation will merge and the outcome is uncertain.
Democracy will disappear completely
I don’t think the idea of democracy will survive, the practice of democracy will become even less than today. Worst case: one or more dictatorships will rule the world, second worst: capitalist anarchy. Best case: an ‘enlightened’ global government against destruction of the earth.
interview Kishore Mahbubani:The West today is the biggest threat to the word. Start at 41.00
Re: Financial Tsunami in the West
Motion of the day:
The financial and moral superiority of the West is over..........
After beiing the center of the world for a few hundred years, the 21 century will be the century of the " New Asian Hemisphere, the irrisistible Shift of Global Power to the East" (book of Kishore Mahbubani).
But the West is not able to recognize this.We hold on to a Global financial, strategic and moral superiority, but these are no longer evident for the majority of the world population. But we, the West keep on critisising the rest of the world while we alienate instead of building bridges. We have to get rid of the idea that the Rest should adapt to our standards, we have start to adept to the Rest. Scary, but we should use this financial crisis to really look at the world as a global entity and start to reinvent financial, strategic and moral values. Thinking about everybody and not only about ourselves.
Financial Tsunami in the West
Motion of the day:
The financial and moral superiority of the West is over..........
Re: Forum
kweenie....als er weer een aanleiding is....
misschien kunnen jullie alvast wat reageren op filmpjes die er staan, in Nederlands of Engels, en kijken wt er gebeurt.....
groet uit NYC lotte
xxxmaartje
Re: Forum
wanneer gaan we weer debateren bij Pal West:D
superr x
Re: Re: wel Adam I myself think and hope Obama wil win the election. and i think it wil be great because the world is ready for some changes and McCAin is not going to bring it cos he is more like Bush and we all know it is nog going wel with Bush. I mys
Adam, 25 Aug 08, 23:45
As an American, I am curious what reaction the rest of the world would have if McCain won the election. I think most Europeans feel it is a given that Obama will win, but polls show they are more or less tied at the moment. Any opinions are welcome (Even ones that bash my country...it is expected and often deserved :)
Re: Re: Forum wel
Adam, 25 Aug 08, 23:45
As an American, I am curious what reaction the rest of the world would have if McCain won the election. I think most Europeans feel it is a given that Obama will win, but polls show they are more or less tied at the moment. Any opinions are welcome (Even ones that bash my country...it is expected and often deserved :)
Re: Forum
While in Beijing nodody seemed to care....USA is not important to us the Chinese said. a quick check around me does not have big reactions...but American said: It is not that Obama will change the USA, it is that he makes us believe we can change....I liked ttaht one....
how is it around you Adam, wherever you are?
Re: Forum
As an American, I am curious what reaction the rest of the world would have if McCain won the election. I think most Europeans feel it is a given that Obama will win, but polls show they are more or less tied at the moment. Any opinions are welcome (Even ones that bash my country...it is expected and often deserved :)
Re: Forum
USA has more medals but less gold that's why china is still number one.
Re: Forum
Why do you think that " those lists are nonsense anyway"....?? I agree that the there is no official rules from the IOC, but I think it is more logical that a "Total Medals By Nation"-list is based on champions rather than "almost champions". I wonder how American media would ranking themselves when they won more gold medals than China but less in total amount....
Re: Re: Forum
Everyone can make a list based on his own rules!! I think those lists are nonsense anyway!!!
Re: Forum
There is always a "Total Medals By Nation"-list during the Olympic games, which is usually based on the amount of golden medals a country has won. The number one at this moment is China with 37 golden medals and the second place on the list is the USA with 19 golden medals....BUT if we look closely to American media (CNN and the New york Times), we see a difference: USA number one and China number two!! They based their list on the total amount of medals a country has won!!! According to those media, a country can be number one on the list without winning one medal of gold!!! Look by yourself at the following links (CNN and The New York Times):
sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/2008/medals/tracker/
2008games.nytimes.com/olympics/medals.asp
Re: The moral and economic superiority of the West is over!
Facts & Philosophizing:
Philosophizing about moral en economic superiority is all well and fine, but the whole discussion becomes a lot more interesting when you put in a few FACTS. I found a wonderful TED-talk which shows in a wonderful way what is actually happening in the world with regard to the distribution of wealth and HEALTH (which is a little bit important too!). It appears most of us don’t really understand what’s happening, so WATCH this demonstration: www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_best_stats_you_ve_ever_seen.html